Haters: You are SO Boring
It’s so pointless to even talk about, but what’s with the people who actually take the time to write inane negative comments on amateur YouTube videos? I understand: you’re 13, you’re trying to be witty, and you forget that there’s some human on the other end. And you come up with just the right clever little thing to say, some zinger like “OMG? I want to kill you noob,” or perhaps “I hate you,” some really eloquent expression of your criticism, and you can’t resist. Congratulations: you’ve just become extremely boring.
I had seen this list of the top 12 “Still Alive” covers on Joystiq, but I wasn’t aware of the little comments scuffle going on over CupcakeAndTea’s contribution until someone pointed it out to me. And, just, sigh. Really? This is a good use of your time, to make someone you’ve never met feel bad just because they made an amateur fan video about something they really like? Where’s your thing that you made and put online for everyone to see, you chicken-shit cockhole?
My hope is that the rise of amateur content and all these channels dedicated to circulating it is creating a race of super humans who have extra thick skin. At least it’s a fluid enough medium that you can find your people as easily as you can find the haters – you can see Cupcake’s community/fans coming to her defense in the YouTube comments, and hopefully she takes enough pleasure from that to offset bad stuff. It takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there. Believe me, I know, I spent nine years in a day job because I was afraid to do it. So it drives me nuts to see people lobbing bullshit negativity into the crowd – if you don’t like it, don’t watch it. And if you don’t have a piece of yourself to contribute, keep quiet. The rest of us are working here.
Michael Renneker says
Wow. Coulton actually pissed about something. That seems like it would take a lot of work or hitting the exact right button to do.
Too right! That kind of stuff drives me bonkers. Such hateful and hurtful comments are "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
"Where’s your thing that you made and put online for everyone to see, you chicken-shit cockhole?" is one of the best sentences to ever grace the internet.
Insulting someone for their effort and enthusiasm always makes you the douche or the "noob" not the other way around. If you don't like something, there's no reason to be nasty about it. Constructively criticise or shut it.
It reminds me of all of the high school talent shows I've been to. Performing in front of a bunch of your peers (horribly insecure and cruel teenagers, as it usually stands) who would never have the courage to share what THEY love, as they boo at you, has got to be one of the bravest things I've ever witnessed.
The internet just allows for more of the same, since one can sling shit without ever having to show their face or take responsibility for it.
Roman V says
Have you considered making a Youtube account and "video blogging"? The fact that you wrote the song would definitely give you some weight, and there's very little the haters will be able to say.
On a side note, have you heard of http://blogsforbands.com/ ? It's basically using this Wordpress thing everyone uses nowadays for blogs and adds all kinds of API kung fu to it. They've got a "Discography" plugin and a "Gigs Calendar" plugin going on at the moment. I'm sure more to come?
Roman: yep, I'm one of the guinea pigs actually, though I haven't rolled anything out yet.
"Chicken-shit cockholes" is the name of my new Emo Band.
I almost made a YouTube account simply to direct those people that posted such lousy insults as well as all of her supporters to this lovely little blog post here, but... I didn't.
Dr Freud says
Internet Fuckwad Theory:
Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad
Sean Leary says
JoCo, I completely agree with you on this point. And its super frustrating to me on the other end of the hate and have to just take it. Because the haters are so used to the response of, if you don't contribute then you have no voice.
And Malorie, I nearly crapped myself when i saw that line, so i totally agree with you there!
JoCo, looking forward to the new song, hope to hear it soon!
In the eloquent words of Chef Masaharu Morimoto: "With you, 100% agree... Yes."
As a vlogger, I empathize with victims of that sort of technologically mental abuse. Since when is the whole point of putting oneself out there to please all other people? Sure, it's a perk if others enjoy it, but, ultimately, it's for the brave soul who exposed themselves in the first place. And that's exactly what they are: exposed and, therefore, vulnerable.
People who throw insults are cowardly hiding behind a wall of their own lack of creativity. They can bash all they want because they can't be bashed back. But they're cowards. It's another one of those "put-down-others-to-improve-one's-self-identity" shizznits. If someone needs to resort to the internet, exuding negativity to those who don't even deserve it.. They must be really desperate for some self-confidence.
Don't just get mad at them, Jon.
Write a *song* about them :)
(If you agree to do so I'll pay for my copy in advance!)
For a long time, I was convinced that IMDb threads were the lowest form of internet discourse, and that it couldn't get any worse. Then You Tube came along. You Tube comments must be a form of communication even lower than the grunting and gesturing of early man.
People who don't like my videos, I don't mind. Haters who are just spewing bile get a quick ban and their comment removed. It's not personal. If a dog shits on my lawn, I remove that too. ;)
I guess half the time people who get really angry about a video that strikes them as amateurish or a waste of the two minutes they just spent watching it (and we've all been there, we just mostly move on after the first 20 seconds) are *really* angry at the person who sent them the link, or the 10s of 000s of people who rated the video and made them think it was worth watching in the first place. Misdirected aggression. Textbook.
And it is a problem. There's a *lot* of crap out there. (By any given person's standard, whoever you are.) For someone who isn't very web 2.0-savvy or discriminating themselves, or who doesn't have the discipline and attention span to self-moderate, it must be really frustrating that every gem of hilarious or moving or exciting or beautiful amateur content out there is indistinguishable from thousands of other pieces that they just don't want to watch. There is of course no way to prevent the less good stuff from appearing (nor should there be: what you think is crap and what I think is crap only overlap by 90%, which given the thousands of new videos that appear every day is a significant body of material). What this person needs to do, rather than lashing out, is learn to use Web 2.0 and decide whose ratings they trust in order to become more discriminating themselves.
And try creating something themselves. As you say, there's no excuse for trying to crush someone's spirit just because they've made an effort and put themselves out there--however disappointed you may be in the result. Seeing how hard it is and how many people may not be impressed by your results will be a very good lesson for anyone. Or, of course, they could just go stick their head up their own chicken-shit cockhole.
It seems that much of internet comment has become the purvey of the angst ridden bored early teen.
Let's not forget that using psychometric yardsticks, many (?most) early teens actually qualify as clinical sociopaths. Fortunately for humanity, this does seem to be a passing phase for most. Unfortunately for humanity, some never get past it.
Peace (and apologies to those early teens that are already more sane and self-actualized than I'll ever be.......and I'm old enough that I should be)
Luke M says
She's totally outclassing them in the comments thread, not hard to do but good for her.
"i just was having fun chill-lax ok?
thank you for your criti[ci]sm none the less"
In cases like this, I remember something my wife said: "They're not 'acting like' assholes, they ARE assholes." Maybe they will realize that and reform, but I'm not holding my breath. Just another fun thing to deal with on this planet.
Something that I learned very quickly in design classes is to embrace criticism, and ignore purposefully malicious comments. I look at almost everything with a critical eye, but a lot of people don't deal well with criticism of any type. A large number of people that I have met are used to unconditional praise.
I appreciate it if someone voices a dislike of something that I created as long as they offer a suggestion of how I can improve. Advice doesn't cost you anything. You can take it or leave it.
Jon Who says
Lots of angry people, and I have to side with the good guys. There's just no benefit at all to downplay people like that. Sure perhaps a bit of constructive criticism so that people can work on things and improve, but what most YouTube commenters seem to do is go too far.
Yeah, people are mean on my video too. I delete the truly awful stuff, but I don't delete people who simply don't like mine. They make me sad, but I leave them up -- you can't please everybody. Some people are apparently so hung up on 3D graphics or video with tv quality production values that they can't see the good in a stick figure animation. And I think some people are so damn outraged that Sporksmith and Blackcatbonifide (Jim and Bonnie) didn't win first place in the PopSci contest that they think being mean to me will help rectify that perceived injustice in some way. Even though Jim and Bonnie like my video and I like theirs and we're all cool.
Some people have been kind enough to try to leap to my defense -- some post angry, "WTF is wrong with you" responses to the nasty commenters, and of course some have been rating down nasty comments with the little thumbs-down icon. But the thing that helps most is when people simply post nice comments that include reasons they like my video. I've gotten several of those recently. Hooray!
Andrea, your video for I Feel Fantastic gets better and better every time I watch it.
I love it, I want a T-shirt version of it!
Have you noticed that people don't seem to write all over the bathroom walls with stupid comments as much as in the past? I guess they are getting it out of their system on YouTube.
Happy New Sun, Jonathan. First let me say that I'm a huge fan of your work, and I'm also quite thrilled about your licensing habits. My girl, who appears in my silly little contribution to youtube (which should appear as my "website" in this comment), translated the CC licenses to mexican legalese, and coincidentaly did some of the mexican lawyerly work for the launch of youtube mexico. Well, I've put myself out there, so proving I'm not a chickenshit cockhole. I may still be a cockhole xor chickenshit!
Well, one of the first things I did online, other than lounging, was to direct the putting together (disclaimer: my guy David did the legwork) of a selfscheduling website for a week of workshops on free software (on the theory that if you build it, they will teach, and that filtering the courses would be counterproductive). It was one of the most succesful things I've done. And yet, one of the first comments was: "If your design is such a piece of shit, you are not qualified to be teaching anything.". (Or the spanish equivalent thereof, "foul" language and all.) At first sight, the comment completely missed the point that while we were teaching a few courses, most of the "content" would come from contributors we had never actually met. At first I was pissed, and my first instinct was to engage this cockhole in a flamewar, but then I looked at the design and thought: "Well, it is actually kind of shitty.". Of course, at the time I had no artist on staff, so I didn't mean to improve much on it, but the mannerless cockhole actually had a point.
Which brings me to my point. And it is this (fanfares): violence can be constructive if you let it, or at least, it can clear the way for constructive (creative) stuff; violence can be cleansing, though that path to cleanliness is, well, violent; it is one of the three main forces (not force in the physical sense) in the universe (creation, stasis, and destruction), and without it everything would be hopelessly cluttered, and there would be no room for shiny new stuff. Even your activity is in a sense violent, at least to the music executives who hope the industry remains boringly static.
Like I said, I say all this with the utmost respect and admiration.
As sorry as I feel about that poor girl being so abused, I find most notable (and endearing) the way JC stands up for his fans. Seriously, how many other artists can you name who would personally interject themselves for a fan like that?
Hello this is CupcakeAndTea I would like to say a Big thank you to you, Jonathan. I do seem to not be liked to much, I'd like people to realize it does make me uncomfortable at the negative attention sometimes but then i realize some of the people that actually understand. I did not think the video would become so popular ;) As you mentioned I am an mediocore average amateur with only a digital camera :)
I have to say I actually have to thank my haters in some way because of the contreversy they've stirred posting "how retarded" I am has only helped me reach more viewers.
Thank you for your kindness I won't forget it :)
forgot to mention Im freaking out right now :)
The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory at work, alas. I like to think that a decade as a message board moderator has prepared me somewhat for the hating...
My personal pet peeve is not the "u sux, lol" comments but specifically the "you have way too much time on your hands" ones (which always seem to be made by people who have a lot of time on their hands to comment on other people's work). I work 50 hour weeks that leave me mentally and physically exhausted. Damn straight I'm going to spend my spare time and energy as I please, and art is about the only thing I *have* time for after all that. Nothing makes me wish more that there were a way to punch people through the innartubes.
Agreed, the "you have too much time on your hands" comment is the lamest. I'd say the pimply-faced thirteen-year-old mamma's boy who spends all day surfing YouTube is the one with too much time on his hands. :)
That's why I disable comments on YouTube videos. I'd appreciate the positive feedback, but I can do without the asshats.
I'll work on inventing a chemical to spray on yourself to keep the fucktards away. Oh wait...they already have that. It's called "soap."
Love to JoCo, and all his "parodiers." Brilliant stuff!
Jonathan Coulton you are my hero.
Eric Ginsberg says
"chicken-shit cockhole" I love you.
This is why I use a Greasemonkey script to hide YouTube comments. It says something that the people working on StupidFilter get a great deal of research material from YouTube comments.
Please write a song on this topic so we can make more amateur videos.
I once posted a video of my friend mocking/flailing to a Linkin Park song that our teacher wanted us to analyze, and one young girl took this as a personal insult and began leaving racist comments out of the blue.
Okay, in the young mind I suppose it could seem like a form of accomplishment--leaving a generic, illiterate insult for everyone in the world to see. Cupcake has a point, though; negative feedback often attracts more viewers, some of whom may actually appreciate the effort that was put into a video.
One of the worst things about web 2.0 is sadly the comments section on popular websites. I think the jayisgames.com site has the best approach, they only allow /constructive/ criticism. The point of web 2.0 is to have meaningful discourse, not just scream our opinions as loud as we can with no regard for other people.
Then there's wired.com, where every blog post tends to devolve into a liberal vs. conservative flamewar. *sigh*.
Omzg Jonathan that is just what i'm been thinking about.
Since i'm a singer too and am going on a estetic line so i know the value of positive feedback
Not that my opinion matters at all, speaking as someone who's endured something similar for two decades, I deeply respect the courage this girl has to create something like this, and put it out on the Internets where chicken-shit cockholes can take cheap shots at her from the safe anonymity of their own miserable little lives.
This seems relevant.
Andrew R says
I agree completely.
I really enjoyed that video, and the asshats hating on it made me very angry.
Congratulations to CupcakeandTea for creating and posting the video. And thanks to JoCo and to all the commenters here for standing up and saying, "Hey, douchebags, go spew your vinegar-water solution somewhere else." (I paraphrase.) I've seen some truly awful stuff on YouTube, but I don't feel the need to say anything about it -- I just go to another video and hope it's better. Why should I ruin someone else's day?
Most people don't have the courage to create something from inside themselves and display it to the world. It takes guts. The closest some people can come (to carry the analogy to it's logical, disgusting end) is flinging poo.
Rob (not the boring manager one) says
I agree with Gromit on this one... Channel this into another song. Something that will inspire more amature video's. That will really stick it to all the chicken-shit cockholes out there!
Jay Maynard says
JC: Yeah, you got it exactly right. About all anyone can do in the face of it is to ignore the Slashdotters and Farkers and SomethingAwful forum goons 4chan idiots and all of the other Internet kiddies who can't do anything on their own, but sure can spew out all of the hatred and derogatory comments anyone has ever thought of.
Unfortunately, you're preaching to the choir: those who need to hear your message are exactly those who will ignore it.
(In case you're curious, I came over here because of Wil Wheaton's blog post.)
For every person who tells me I'm awful on youtube, there's 10 that say I'm great. I can deal.
Hear freaking hear, Mr. Coulton.
I just hope that someone actually listens now that a well-known and respected voice made these morons' idiocy known.
See, the hope I have is that the amateur creators out there realize that you can't please all the people all of the time -- but that being said, if you don't have anything nice, or at the very least constructive, to say about someone's work, don't say anything. Personally, if something I made didn't turn out very well, I'd rather someone tell me what I did wrong and how to fix it than just put me off by saying "lolol, this sucks u cntw4d."
Once again, sah, you rock.
I am so glad someone has the guts to say this. Thank You Jonathan Coulton.
It pisses off all of us as well.
as one of the multitude of podcasters out there who deal with this kind of BS all the time too, I sound a barbaric AMEN, JC!
I fear that my use of the term "cockhole" has undermined my Very Important Point. Speaking of which, before we get to far along I must give the credit for this, my favorite new swear, to blogging technician Joel Johnson. I don't know if he was its originator or merely the fellow who romanced that particular stone. Either way, he is the best.
Damn straight! Haters can go piss up a stump.
This has inspired me to post the video I've had sitting on my desktop of me playing "Gambler's Prayer" on my 12-string. No more worrying about what people might say. It'll be up soon.
It is so fantastic that Jonathan responded to this so quickly and kindly. There is a lot of garbage on the web and especially on youtube. A lot of inane self-serving garbage produced by talentless attention-whores. I don't believe in condescendingly puffing someone up for terrible content (though in this case, the video is quite good and very charming), but I do believe it is important to acknowledge honest and earnest people exposing themselves to criticism with honest and earnest contributions.
I don't know if this girl is a little kid or a teenager or what (she seems like she's probably about twelve or fourteen or something), but regardless I as a slightly older geek feel that I'm obligated to support the next generation of people who are brave enough and creative enough to be proud geeks. It's the least we can do. Being a young geek can be hard and not immediately rewarding and the last thing needed is a bunch of ridiculing by purported adults.
I mean, I honestly was completely taken aback by the responses on joystiq and youtube. I can understand if people don't like some particular thing, but for gaming geeks and dorks who should know better to be so vicious and cruel to a kid or teenager is surprising. Even the joystiq article itself is mean and condescending.
I'm very happy to see that the wider response from people here (and elsewhere) is turning out to be much kinder. If geeks don't support geeks, who will?
You are a class act, Mr. Coulton. An absolute class act. I'm proud to consider myself a fan.
Godfrey Drake says
Yeesh. I of course agree with all of the above; not really much else that can be said at this point. Although I'd really like to note the irony: Whereas those lovely, wonderful people who like to comment negatively on things could only make it part of the way through her video, I could only make it through about three comments. I find this amusing.
Is it okay if those of us who are too craven to post our own content post positive reviews of other peoples' work? I think that should be allowed, personally.
Mr. Coulton - not only do I support you in this, but I beg, please, please, make a song called "chicken-shit cockhole".......you would do it so much justice. Keep up the fantastic work!!
Michael R. Bernstein says
This seems relevant:
Jonathan Stansel says
I saw loads of really nice, encouraging reviews, too. So, not all people on the net are total dickwads.
Oh, and Mr. Coulton? All I know about you is your song, "Still Alive," and this blog post, and I have to say, I'm a fan. "Chicken-shit cockhole"? You are a poet among poets, sir. In all seriousness, that captures exactly what I feel
about these people.
Thank you, sir.
I think one source of these issues is that so many people have never really tried to create anything, be it a song or a fan video, a comic, a story. Never having expended effort on creating something(or failed attempts at creating something, even the practice that is often required to be able to make something) might make it harder to see how much effort someone has put into their creation.
If you can not put something of less than stellar quality out there for people to give honest and useful feedback on (either because they all flame you with insightful comments like "OMG lrn2notSuck di3 in a fir3!", or because you are too worried about comments like that) then you will find it hard to be able to release something of higher quality for much the same reasons.
Sadly it is common behaviour to put people down instead of acknowledging that while what they did may not have been perfect, they are at least trying, whether you comment or not is the issue, it is how you choose to comment. As a general rule everyone sucks at most things to begin with, (most people don't walk up to infants and tell them how much they suck at walking every time they fall over) I believe this extends to putting yourself out there to be seen.
I'm sure I had more of a point in mind when I started typing this, but it now eludes me in my morning state. Glad to see great artists encouraging creativity in many ways.
Go JoCo! Uh...GoCo!
Thanks for using your seldom expressed ire for something like this, makes it very poignant. And do not question your use of "chicken-shit cockhole". Its the best, most to the point, epithet I have heard in a while. Please suggest Paul and Storm include it in their epithet litany.
And I am very proud of CupcakeandTea for being brave in the face of the haters, and defending her awesomely cute cover!
As Jonathan Stansel also said a bit earlier, I don't know much about you other than "he's that guy who wrote Still Alive" and this blog post. I think I read one other one before. I'll read more now.
I found this post via Wil Wheaton, and I have to say, with what I've read so far, you are a class act. Good on you for sticking up for the little guy, so to speak.
She's pretty cool Jonathan, you should do a duet with her. I'd love to see that.
Thank you, Jonathan.
When my Toxic video started getting some attention, the forums at CollegeHumor.com agreed that I look and sound like a 12 year old boy, and were completely merciless about it.
I was really bruised at first, and avoided reading their comments completely for a while, but now I know that they're just immature undergraduate students who hide behind the supposed anonymity of the internet to make themselves believe that they're cynical and funny.
I'm reminded of Kevin Smith's comeback at the ComiCon heckler: "Wasn't that great, honey? Oh that's right, I don't have a girlfriend."
Again, thank you.
Roman V says
I think this points out the most obvious difference between Jonathan Coulton and other, perhaps more established musicians. If I were to make a music video for a number of stars and put it on Youtube they would have it removed. Coulton not only promotes these kinds of things, but defends them when people speak negatively about them.
Personally I think the video was awesome.
You are my hero for standing up for these fans. What they do may be silly, dorky, or even painful to watch on occasion. But you said it best; if it bothers you that much, DON'T WATCH! I think you also nailed it when you challenged the trolls of the world to grow a pair and try putting their own content out in public for everyone to criticize. One of the saddest aspects of the Internet is how it lends the shield of total anonymity to the people who would abuse it the most. It takes a lot of guts for someone to publish something like a video, or even a blog, that anyone can access. It requires nothing (particularly not courage) to post anonymous hatemongering. Trolls and flamers are cowards and should be dismissed as such.
Roman V says
Did I say more established? I meant people tied down in a record label.
I'm always happy to see that I'm not the only one who can't stand the people who prove John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory true. Also, I'm pleased that I'm not the only one who makes new swear words by sticking existing ones together.
It seems only appropriate to the chickenshit cockholes who have never posted anything themselves, that cupcakeandtea's message via JoCo and Portal is that long after they are dead and gone, her video will be Still Alive.
I could listen to JC say cockhole all day long.
Seriously, are people getting stupider or are there just more of them?
CupcakeandTea's attitude about the whole thing is great. She doesn't let the haters get her down. And to that I say, rock on.
If I were picking members for my gang of neighborhood toughs, I'd totally pick JoCo first. He'd kick everyone's asses and shame them in such an awesome way.
Devil's Advocate says
How about this - if you don't like the haters' comments, don't read them.
Yeah, sounds pretty stupid, huh?
JoCo.... kudos for saying what was on everyone's mind. That little girl has real feelings and those negative people would not have enough courage to say those things in person. It took more courage for the girl to have made (and to keep the video posted).
Dr Freud says
Dear Devil's Advocate,
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
When is your birthday? I send you a nice dictionary.
Everytime I wander out of my largely civil corner of the internet I am stunned by the sheer asshattery of so many people out there. (And as JoCo points out, the incredible lack of wit or originality that they exercise.)
Jonathan, really awesome to see you go all "It's clobberin' time!" You've got our backs, and that's a really amazing thing.
JoCo, once again I get the joy of reading one of your blog posts and being reminded exactly how right your approach to the creative process is, and it's hugely obnoxious of people who are too afraid to step out and bare their works to the world to comment on those brave enough to do so.
I've linked to the XKCD comic on the subject of YouTube comment threads, in case someone hasn't yet.
Bravo, and can't wait til your next trip back to Boston. Fight the good fight against internet inanity, JoCo!
Evil Ducks says
The thing about youtube is... you never, under any circumstance, ever, read the comments.
Mark Gordon says
Oh, some of the comments are funny. Check out this video for some good examples.
Devil's Advocate says
I'm well aware of what a hypocrite is. I see them all over this page. A hypocrite is someone who complains about "haters" and then resorts to name-calling and immature put-downs. Ergo, you're a bunch of hypocrites.
Since I'm elaborating, every one of these people has a right to express their opinion, and in many cases, that opinion is, "I hated this so much I want to hurt you." Shame on them for being negative, but shame on all of you for the same. And shame on you for validating their statements by responding, which you wouldn't have done if they really didn't mean anything. And even more shame on those of you who think these people don't have the right to express their opinions however they wish on a public forum. That's far more harmful than anything they could ever say about a video.
Well said, Jonathan! Excellent riposte to the e-nut gallery.
Len, if you're reading this:
Please do draw a Chicken-Shit Cockhole doodle, do!
(Sorry, could not resist. Punnish me.)
UR MUSIC ROCKS MY WOLRD!!!!!!!!!!!
and like i said before you are a music god to me.
I absolutely hate people like that on YouTube. If I don't like a video, I just hit the 'back' button. It's as easy as that. Much easier than typing something that's probably going to discourage the creator from making better-quality videos in the future.
What disturbed me is not that people were asshats when reading the comments on that video and the joystiq article about it. That's to be expected. But it's honestly kind of surprising to see a community of fellow geeks and gamers (presumably most of them adults since the average gamer is almost 30 years old) treating a much younger geek and gamer with such pointless cruelty. I wouldn't expect much from a little punk ass bitch who thinks "geek" is a good word to use to hurt someone, but from fellow geeks? I simply expect (and usually see) so much better.
Fortunately, Coulton and Wheaton and others commenting here about it remind us that there ARE positive elder-geeks out there. I just hope we remember to continue keeping an eye out for the geeklings, too. As if it isn't hard enough being a teenager. Much less a geeky teenager. WIthout having adult geeks piss on you over it.
These posts have been refreshing to read!
become an hero...
Listen, whoever the fuck you are...
I can see by reading your blog that you are an insufferable attention whore.
The reason you post your little blogs is so that people can agree with you and salivate over your every word, and then you can go in the corner and masterbate while you think of all the people who may have read an opinion of yours that most logical people wouldn't give a shit about... All the sheep who say, "whoa ya, he's right! mean people are mean :( . Like, why would the pick on someone like that? That's Sooooooo mean! Oh my gawd!"
Listen, I'm all for letting mentally retarded people do things in public to help them build their social skills (by the way, it's nice that your group home/mental hospital allows you computer time to write your blog :) ) But those people should be able to accept the criticism thats thrown their way too.
The bottom line: If you want to be a cam whore/Attention whore, suck it up and accept the criticism from people more worthy than yourself.
YES! Jon Coulton sucks.
Your logic fails.
Just be cause we can we will. Idiots like her shouldn't post stupid shit like this on the internet, they know what they're up against if their goal is not reached. People are mean, face it. Big deal, we are the super humans, we achieve what you wish you could do have the balls to tell someone your honest opinion even if it means causing them a massive depression. We do not lie and encourage people to continue making a fool of them selves, sure we get laughs at their idiocy, but we are mostly concerned that its fool like them that make our internets die, and most of all because they anger us. We are not afraid of letting out our rage because some 20 year old bitch might get her feeling hurt.
We are the Super humans.
so i herd you like mudkipz.
Listen, whoever you are…
I can see by reading your blog that you are an insufferable attention whore.
The reason you post your little blogs is so that people can agree with you and salivate over your every word, and then you can go in the corner and masterbate while you think of all the people who may have read an opinion of yours that most logical people wouldn’t give a crap about… All the sheep who say, “whoa ya, he’s right! mean people are mean :( . Like, why would the pick on someone like that? That’s Sooooooo mean! Oh my gawd!”
Listen, I’m all for letting mentally retarded people do things in public to help them build their social skills (by the way, it’s nice that your group home/mental hospital allows you computer time to write your blog :) ) But those people should be able to accept the criticism thats thrown their way too.
The bottom line: If you want to be a cam whore/Attention whore, suck it up and accept the criticism from people more worthy than yourself.
Your hating on haters. You are a hater yourself. You are boring.
no joke, hating on haters is a tard move. go write a song about it, lol
... Man. Anonymous is out in FORCE.
I'm amused by the asswad who showed up with a "whoever you are". Because being published in PopSci, putting on concerts crosscountry, and having a song in a computer game released by a major publisher? Totally under the radar.
Anyway. Fuck off, Anonymous. The big kids are talking.
And you expect everyone to know who the fuck you are because of this?
At first I was like:
But then I was like:
GET THE FUCK OFF THE INTERNETS WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE. ..I HOPE A FUCKING CLOVERFIELD MONSTER CHARGES HIS LAZERS IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION.
Because being published in PopSci, putting on concerts crosscountry, and having a song in a computer game released by a major publisher? Totally under the radar.
Sorry, I didn't know this guy was Britney Freaking Spears! How could I have not known him??? After all, Putting on concerts (which 18 people show up to) Being published in PopSci (what the hell is that???) and having a tune in a computer game (which one? and by the way, i usually turn the crappy audio off in my games) makes him a FREAKING STAR! Why, just today I was trying to find some info on Heath Ledger's death, but all the papers and blogs wanted to talk about was this Johnathan Coulton cat! Man, i just cant get away from hearing this guy's stuff!
Yes, Mr. Coulton, Run to defense of anyone whom comes under fire, Like the mega fucking internet hero you are, You are failing.. in general.. An hero is your only way out.
the cure for cancer says
I know who you are. You are a sad, small person who is an internet tough guy.
You are not a righteous warrior. You are not the good that can be salvaged from the internet hate machine.
Did Coulton ever claim he was a humongous star? He is a successful independent artist whose music I personally enjoy. If you don't, fine.
BUT STOP. You are small and petty.
Don't respond to me.
"PopSci (what the hell is that???) "
That really says it all.
Anyway, vicious idiotic comments toward other adults is one thing. Couton is a big boy and so are the rest of us (except of those of us who are girls, of course). Viciously attacking a little kid is entirely a different topic. So while I'd classify some of the people commenting here (in the last couple hours) as dick-smoking fucktards, at least they aren't sinking to the level of picking on a little kid. That I know of.
By the way, if you had trouble finding information about Heath Ledger today, it's because you fail at internets. Come on, now.
Little kid? I believe the girl on the youtube video is 20.
@ the cure for cancer:
By saying don't respond to me it just shows that you know your argument is weak and can easily be picked apart.
That said, in regards to the star calibre of Mr. Coulton, I was replying to Deepsleepers comment about how I should have known who this guy was. That's all... Not my own personal views.
No, I don't know what PopSci is, and all that says is that I don't read it. I'm not a techie basement dweller. And I didn't pick on any little kids. I made criticism to a 20 year old woman and a 37 year old man, whom I'm very sure could sleep at night without big ol' you sticking up for them. Put your XXXL cape and tights back on and fly somewhere else looking for another damsel in distress, because you're barking up the wrong tree here.
@ the cure for cancer:
By saying don’t respond to me it just shows that you know your argument is weak and can easily be picked apart.
That said, in regards to the star calibre of Mr. Coulton, I was replying to Deepsleepers comment about how I should have known who this guy was. That’s all… Not my own personal views.
No, I don’t know what PopSci is, and all that says is that I don’t read it. I’m not a techie basement dweller. And I didn’t pick on any little kids. I made criticism to a 20 year old woman and a 37 year old man, whom I’m very sure could sleep at night without big ol’ you sticking up for them. Put your XXL cape and tights back on and fly somewhere else looking for another damsel in distress, because you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
Dan ad nauseam says
Obviously, none of the haters has played enough Munchkin to recognize that the "Net Troll" card is a portrait of them.
Obviously, you need more friends. No, not your MSN or Yahoo! pals online. Go outside and get some sunlight. Drink lots O milk.
Please please please work "chicken-shit cockhole" into some kind of a song. It was a pleasure finally seeing your live show last time you came to Boston.
(to the chicken-shit cockholes)
Everyone is a big tough guy when they're sitting behind a computer and an anonymous comment.
On one side we have people creating stuff, putting their face on it and taking ownership, on the other we have people who will anonymously insult them, taking no risk or (for many)even ownership even of their criticism.
It is so much easier to be a hater. Maybe that's why there are so many of them. There's just a lower barrier of entry.
Try to make something yourself and put it out there. For every one creative thing you make and open up to public criticism, I think you've earned (the right to) one negative comment if you still feel compelled to make it. I imagine that by then you'll have earned your fair share of negative comments, maybe a little perspective too.
omg you stupid cunt if you wanna known though the web/popular or whatever you looking for please just kill yourself record it and post it or make a sex tape so i can fap to thats the only way to do it without being raided
I'm just saying that it's a good idea to do a little research before you jump on your Bold Crusade of Retardation there. Google or something.
For example, Googling for aninicat gets you a notice saying that the results are blocked thanks to legal action against child pornography.
Which really says it all, right there.
Anonymous 2.0 says
While I consider myself part of the "internet hate machine," I would never post purposefully insulting or racist comments on people's videos on sites like YouTube and others. So I completely agree with JoCo's point. Also the video in question was actually quite good.
Darn, this is the first of your blogs that I read(I just happened to know you like... three days ago, after I watched an amazing AMV of Black Dream I think the anime was and your song 'Code Monkey') and god dammit, I love you man. :'D That was just great, and I don't think I could have typed up something about stupid haters this nicely put. Great job dude, you have all my respect. =P
Is this the place where mentally disabled people come to jack off between themselves so they could feel good about life. Am I in the right place?
Mark Gordon says
Ever lived in an apartment with cockroaches?
Ever turn on the kitchen lights one morning and see them skittering across the floor for the crack under the cabinets?
This feels like one of those mornings.
Oh, lord, we've stirred up the /b/-tards again.
Guys, seriously. Grow some balls and give yourselves a name other than "anonymous". It's not funny or admirable, really.
@ Devil's Advocate:
And even more shame on those of you who think these people don’t have the right to express their opinions however they wish on a public forum. That’s far more harmful than anything they could ever say about a video.
There's a difference between criticising something somebody says (or, more to the point, the way they say it) and attempting to pass a law limiting the freedom of speech. Of course people can express themselves anyhow they like--even in a vile and hurtful way (so long as they don't break the law)--and of course both Jonathan and everyone else taking part in this comment thread can express their disapproval or anger at their comments anyhow they like. In most cases the responses here are reasoned and restrained, taking the form of arguments rather than gratuitous insults. In other words constructive rather than chilling speech. I don't see anything harmful about that as suggested in your comment. Nor anything comparable to the hostile comments being commented upon.
JC, I'm making a note hear about this blog: HUGE SUCCESS!
It's sad that our little monkey brains, frustrated by not being allow to throw actual defecation at each other, channel our little monkey rage into vicious words shoved at each other through the tubes that connect our glowing metal boxes.
But I suppose most of us have seen this before, sadly.
CupcakeAndTea has my respect for the following reasons, listed in no particular order:
A) an admirable taste in music
B) learning to work a video capture device
C) navigating the youtube UI
D) scripting a video
E) acting in a video
F) taking a chance
Fame is a funny thing. You can be famous even in a room of 20 people (like some local bands are). The same dynamics seem to happen. It's seems like for every 3 people that dig your output, you're likely to generate 1 hater.
Every artist has at least one if not many critics. Yet, it's the *art* that endures, not the criticism. I'm sure Picaso was told many times to forgo his beastly cubist experiments. Of course, the record of those complaints aren't extent.
As Ratatouille showed us, it's easier to be a critic than a artist.
Aninicat said: "I can see by reading your blog that you are an insufferable attention whore."
I love the irony in that sentence.
It's even more pathetic, as the poster is a *negative* attention whore.
Sometimes it just blows my mind how people can post such idiotic things and not take a step back, look at what they just wrote, and realise that they really should re-examine their life. If your form of entertainment is trolling on the internet and shooting people down for taking a chance that you would never even consider because you're too insecure and have to hide it through immature posturing, there are clearly some pretty big issues going on in your life that should be addressed.
Go to a psychologist. Say "I feel the need to insult people I don't even know and tell them that they should die because they posted something that I thought was amateurish on the internet." While I seriously doubt this has ever been brought to a psychologist before, I'd like to see what they'd have to say to you.
omg this is just to say thank you john :)
@lolwut: No, that's your mom's house. OMG snap!
Jay Maynard says
Aninicat: I got a lot of "you're an attention whore, so you deserved every bit of the hatrd you got when you put yourself out on the Internet for all to see" when I complained about it in my LiveJournal, not long after my costume first hit the net. It was bullshit then, and it's bullshit now.
Criticism is different from hatred. The former is justifiable and helpful. The latter is not. Saying that someone is letting themselves in for it by putting their work up on the net is nothing less than blaming the victim.
Thanks for saying it.
It's fine for the haters to not like something, but another thing entirely for them to savage someone for doing something that they themselves have no idea how to do, nor the creativity to even think of it.
Myself and a lot of people I know catch the same crap sandwich when we post our costumes and inventions to the net and get the predictable peppering of canned comments from the haters.
I think it's related that I absolutely loathe programs like American Idol; they exist only to mock people willing to try. They're fueled by what has apparently become a world-wide obsession with the schadenfreude of beating down the people willing to put themselves out there. Nothing good can come of this. :(
@aninicat and others
Sad. It really is. aninicat and anon and others . . . If you're going to argue your position, then do it in a reasonable way. The way you're doing it now basically amounts to "OMG, I think you're stupid!" There's no argument in that. That's your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to it. But it doesn't refute anything that JC has said.
What JC said, and I agree with him, is that those who post negative comments without any redeeming critical value (negative criticism, when constructive, is good for the creator, though not always fun to receive, as I know personally) are wasting their time, the time of others, and are frankly, stupid. That their comments contribute nothing to the discussion/interpretation of the artist's work that is presumably ongoing, and simply discourages the creator from attempting to make more things.
Regardless of what you may think of an artist's work, as long as their work is not personally offense (say a offensive video about your or your mom . . . or a glorification of nazi pogroms, which I at least would find rather offense), then you probably don't like it because their piece of art simply doesn't speak to you. In that case, you should either let the artist know that, and try to tell them what you would find more appealing, or simply don't view the work. I do that a lot. There's a lot of art I don't appreciate, and so I simply ignore it. It's not like someone is going to force you to go to you tube and watch a certain video. You have that choice.
Now, on to what you're saying. Your 'argument' basically amounts to "you should take it. And JC is an attention whore and that's why he wrote this". I disagree. You should take criticism if it is constructive. Simple negative thoughts . . . well, you'll get those, and have to deal with them, but especially for an amateur producer, or someone just starting out, those can be very damaging.
And they contribute nothing useful. There's no need for them, and their purpose is not intended to contribute to the artist's work or help them in their personal and artistic growth, but rather to cause emotional harm to the artist. And that isn't, in my mind, acceptable. I'll take any constructive criticism you want throw my way (I know that my work isn't anywhere near perfect), but if you're just out to hurt me . . . I don't need to hear that. No one does, and that's what JC is saying.
(It is worth noting that if you make a free speech argument here, and say that people can say what they want . . . yes. But, while I'm not a constitutional scholar, I can promise you that if you stood outside my house 24/7, on the public sidewalk, and shouted insults at me, I could get you dealt with under law. There's free speech, and then there's harassment, and the law has always recognized a line between those . . . not to mention the accountability inherent in most forms of speech prior to the internet)
As for him making this blog post to be an attention whore and get people to think he's great . . . I think you're wrong there as well. He didn't promote the blog post to anyone (I assume), he just made it, and spoke out in defense of a fellow artist, and someone who was using his works (making it more pertinent), making clear and solid points. Others happened to agree with him, and so linked it. The purpose was to address the issue, and let those who noticed know his concern, and agree or disagree as they would (notice that your comments, for example, haven't been deleted).
And that is all the time I'm going to dignify your responses with.
Quote of the Day.
Props JoCo. There is just too much negativity in this world and it is communities like this that really pump up a positive environment for all of its members.
From what I've observed, it is the people who are creating these original creations and participating online in these sorts of forums that are generally the most fun and clever individuals. These are the kind of people who I would want as my friends because I know that we would have a good time. On the other hand, those who are posting negative messages toward material that someone else created for fun, well these jerks are usually just full of anger and sadness and are looking for some way to vent it. In the process, they typically take other people down with them. One shouldn't even bother giving these people the time of day as they are never worth it.
Anyways, that's my two cents.
ahmad badawy says
u prove u deserve ur fans love & appreciations day after day Jonathan
What can I say, other than AMEN?
You've put into words more eloquently than I could something I've been steaming about recently too. This culture of meanness on the Internet is probably no different than any previous generation's bullying, except now it's so much easier.
Thanks for standing up and saying something about this.
I agree with Spiff- there is no reason why web site owners should feel a responsibility to protect worthless comments.
I think negative criticism deserves protection but name calling serves no purpose. An added bonus to removing such comments is that nothing would drive their owners nuts more than not having a forum to spill their bile on.
rob t. says
While mindless negativity is obviously worthless and weak, thoughtful negativity still has its place in the creative arts. If you don't like something, you should be able to explain why in a way that shows your understanding of the artistic work and its context. And good criticism helps shape artistic genres and hold artists to worthwhile artistic standards. Without good critics, art becomes flabby and worthless.
"I h8 u noob" is not acceptable. "I hate this because (considered reason X) (considered reason Y) (considered reason Z)" should be acceptable anywhere.
just my $0.02,
@ Devil's Advocate: You seem to be one of the few negatively-inclined posters here with a brain and a point to make. Props. But if you're going to swoop down here as the voice of morality, you should at least be ideologically consistent.
You: "[S]hame on those of you who think these people don’t have the right to express their opinions however they wish on a public forum."
Okay, so now you purport to deny this blog's author the right to express his? Unless I misinterpret things, he's also the one *footing the bill* to give you a forum to express yours. Not a public one, mind you. His own privately funded space. A space where he has neither edited the comments he finds offensive nor sealed the thread.
Please explain again -- what separates you from the rest of us poor hypocrites? I'm missing the distinction somehow.
I find your "cockhole" neither undermining nor ideologically inconsistent. You directed your comment to an abstract group of anonymous people: "haters." The haters directed their comments at a particular individual -- one with feelings whom they single out to hurt.
That's the point. Right?
I LUV CALI says
I agree with Mr. Coulton but with a twist.
Free to be stupid. Yahoo! Clearly these folks are "challenged" but why give their "thoughts" any credibility at all?
Love and forgive the cock-hole!
They need our compassion more than anything. The best way to show that is to ignore them. Sticking up for her is great but let's ignore the thought deprived haters. They are expressing themselves the best way that they know how.... and deserve our understanding for this lack- of- capacity -mode that they operate in daily. Can you imagine going through life that way? Poor things... advertising this lack of mental stability on the internet is just plain sad. A cry for help perhaps?
Anyway, I blame frivolous law suits for manipulating our genetic evolution. If you really think it is a good idea to use a hair dryer in the bath tub... by all means... be my guest.
A line for the new song....."I like to use my hair dryer in the bath tub..."
@JC: I love it when internet spew turns to mother talk. That to me is true art. :D
BTW, there's GOTTA be a song in all this somewhere, no?
And if you DO write a song maybe you can call it "You Warm the Cockholes of My Heart."
I'm just saying, is all.
(I speak for all of us.)
Luke M says
Wow, where'd all the fuckwits come from? Does defending people from mindless hate somehow send up the Douchebag Signal and they all swing in on their grappling hooks? Is it a slow day over at LGF or something?
« Michael » says
Yeesh. Some people are too intense with this stuff.
I'm almost sahy to post my cover of Still Alive online somewhere ... then again, I never was much one to care about criticism that isn't constructive.
« Michael » says
Erm ... shy to post, that is.
"chicken-shit cockhole" - Johnny-boy, you're still my hero.
The next person to add a comment to this thread (AFTER THIS ONE OF COURSE) is a chicken-shit cockhole!
The next person to comment after that comment is an even bigger chicken-shit cockhole!
Same goes for the person after that!
and so on...
and so on..
and so on...
There is no appropriate response to a hater -- you can't reason with him, you can't shout him down, you can't shame him. Anything you can say in response will only provoke further abuse from him, or from people like him, who enjoy the "sport" of verbally abusing someone. It's exactly analogous to spam: if you reply to the spam, it doesn't matter what you say, it only proves that someone is paying attention and causes more spam to come your way.
Therefore, what you need to do is simply delete the abusive post(s) with no further comment. And ban the abusive poster(s), if you can. When they realize they aren't getting any attention in response to their provocations (and believe me, a bunch of outraged responses are *exactly* what they are hoping for), they will get bored and go find some other forum to poison.
A note. says
Actually the "humor" is in this type of response.
You know (or don't), she's rather infamous in several places (forums, blogging communities, etc) and all that spontaenously combusted last night it seems. Don't go falling in love so quickly when you don't know her.
It surprised me how many people got involved. But I suppose the Portal demographic is very far reaching...
I love how all the negative comments prove JoCo's whole point. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Love it.
While I agree there's lots of destructive stuff out there that people post under the guise of anonymity, as a performer I was faced with humility and harassment in live situations. Honestly I think it made me a stronger performer in the long run. It helps me sell my act and be bulletproof - and more enjoyable for the people who do like what I am doing/showing.
All performers take their lumps, it's part of being a performer. Just opening your mouth to sing puts you out there, you could have done it alone at home, but then who would have enjoyed it?
I am glad you did it, and she did as well. Haters give sass and as bad as that is, without the risk of defeat the thrill of success would be less gratifying I think.
Y'all are a trip. This video has a lot to say about the internet fuckwad tendencies... haven't seen it mentioned here but it cracks me up and is sadly so true. http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1771556
Isn't there a song already about the ghost of a Molly Malone with a wheel barrow through streets broad and narrow crying'
Cockholes and haters hate Still Alive oh
JoCo, you speak the truth.
We should nail this to the front door of the 'web so you have to read it before you come in:
"to make someone you’ve never met feel bad just because they made an amateur fan video about something they really like? Where’s your thing that you made and put online…"
Oh, and also: the web should have a front door.
Best video ever, CupcakeAndTea! Don't let the haters get you down. Do more covers please!
Average YouTube Guy says
OMG you noob ur blog wuz craap like I mean wtf noob go die in a ditch
Jimmy B says
MattC: the web HAS a front door. It's called Google homepage :P.
This was so wonderful of you; your legion of admirers have stepped up, and not only weighed in on Cupcake's sweet rendition here, but also on her entry's site. She has been happily responding ever since..so nice!
great post !
I totally agree. As everyone sane, I much prefer people encouraging, trusting and giving advices and love than full-hate morons wanting to trash good-willing people.
and yes, it needs strong to expose him/herself in front of people.
Anon #3 says
It seems to me that most anons here are total newfags. They seem not to appreciate the content of a hard working person who brought us that great jingle about cake. The hate machine is to direct its attention to the fools who rant about shit on their videos and waste their pathetic emo lives and money away on sites like Myspace and Habbo Hotel. Don't forget that 13 year olds ho Tipe leik dis are our greatest enemy. Many confuse the "sophisticated" likes of us with the brainless retards from ebaums. YOU (not Anonymous 2.0) are the cancer that is killing *****.org
@JimmyB - good point. :)
This reminds me when I went to MegaTokyo forums once, and only once. I was asking about finding pictures to do a MegaTokyo AMV/ slideshow, and got bashed by someone telling me that you can't do a music video with something that isn't moving, and that I should just give up or something to that effect. Then a year or so later, a bunch of MT slideshows show up on YouTube...didn't see that coming did ya, 'chicken-shit cockhole"?
chicken shit cockhole says
congrats,you just proved that you're an internet white night.
go fail more,alongside your crew here thiking they got some *upper hand* in this,they're tools just like you.
chicken shit cockhole says
Elevated Hand Slap says
At some point, internet trolls and Lemmings become all too similar.
I appreciate the content of your message but am really freaked that you are calling a bunch of (ignorant) kids "cockholes". Really? I'm sure you just don't realize how that insult is pretty sexually violent and objectifying. Of kids. Holes. In which to stuff cocks.
Cockholes is sexually violent and objectifying? o.o
I'm afraid you vastly misinterpret the pejorative in question, darling. "Cockhole" is not a hole for stuffing cocks into. "Cockhole" is the hole in the cock. You know the one that pee comes out of? Yup, that one.
Oh fuck oh fuck, gotta make a video so johnathan doesn't bitch at me.
Jon, I think someone has mentioned this earlier, but I believe a new song should made titled "chicken-shit cockhole" ;)
Damn, I'm 13 and I'm forced to be involved with these people. Yeah, it sucks. But once you understand that you can't win then you feel better.
C'mon now, JC; don't play the "I'm a jaded, indie hipster" card too much.
witty & 13 says
OMG? I want to kill you noob.
Constructive criticsm is tough, but it comes with the territory when you create something.
Chickenshit Cockholes, though? They're an ass-ache that never seems to go away.
I used to let people comment freely on the videos my group and I made. Now? I watch the comments so I can delete the comments posted by obvious mean-spirited tardbots as quickly as I can. More work for me? Sure, but it's worth it.
Once upon a time I would have considered actions like that "censorship", and nigh on evil. Now? I consider it protecting the work everyone put into one of our silly little projects.
Still, I'd rather have to deal with those little misanthropes than not have the Internet available. It's an evil, sure, but one I can deal with happily.
So, JC...when will you be releasing a song called "Chickenshit Cockhole"? :)
Gosh! Thank you man! Me and my friend started our YouTube few eeks ago and I just don't see what the point is in our negative comments! I mea...we're just having some fun, we're not hurting anybody here. I see if we were posting something completely retarded but were making a genuine authentic web series here. Lol what do you guys think?
-DiBBS of Lyrical Retrt
Actually the haters are saying more about themselves than about you.
Delete the remark, ban them, and move on. The genuine comments you get are worth it.